A couple of weeks ago Phillip Lehman aka Bando sparked controversy with several statements in a video on his Instagram account. The Parisian graffiti pioneer spoke about the values of graffiti, attacking writers not committed to illegal activity. Given the amount of attention paid to his speech by important celebrities in the world of getting-up, we contacted Bando, not only to dig further into his arguments, but also to talk about other topics related to this figure that we consider important.
Were you aware, when you started in hip hop, and specifically in graffiti, of how significant you might be to European writers?
No, I really did not. I was just addicted to graffiti and I could not stop.
Are you aware of the importance your opinion has on the scene nowadays?
No, I am not really aware of the importance of my opinion, but it does not matter to me what people think. I will always say what I think.
“What has changed is that a bunch of fake graffiti posers, some with great technique and such, can paint legal walls and impress everyone who doesn’t have any knowledge of what graffiti really is”
In one of the latest post on your Instagram account, you talk about the core values of graffiti, as if no time had passed, and that they remain the same and just as important as ever. Don’t you think that circumstances and people have changed, as well as the values?
I think that obviously since many more people today are getting into graffiti, it is obviously a lot harder nowadays to rack paint or paint illegal stuff but, it is the same as in any sport. For example, if you’re starting out surfing, today you will have a really hard time catching waves in Hossegor compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Due to the increase in practitioners of the sport, there are now 100 people trying to catch 4 waves, while back in the 80’s there were 5 people trying to catch 4 waves.
As for graffiti, no, the values have not changed, but the stakes are way higher now. If you want to be considered a real writer, steal your paint and go tagging: Where there is a will there is a way. You are either in or you are out; there is no middle ground.
I don’t think the values have changed at all. What has changed is that a bunch of fake graffiti posers, some with great technique and such, can paint legal walls and impress everyone who doesn’t have any knowledge of what graffiti really is, post about it on the Internet and get “fame” that way. Fake stuff like that would not have existed back in the day because the only way to get up was to actually go out street bombing. There was no Internet and unless you actually painted for real, no one would notice. Nowadays you can paint a wall in the comfort of your own home, post a “hardcore” graffiti pic, and thousands of people will see it. But to real writers that shit will always be fake. For example, I live in the Dominican Republic and this country has its fair share of bullshit Street Art, but it also has some real writers who street bomb everything. Guys like Ray. He tagged everything here and I notice and know. Real writers will notice who is and who is not genuine. It warms my heart to see tags everywhere in Paris every time I go back; throw ups all over the place. When I see tags and throw ups everywhere it really makes me feel like I made a difference.
“(…) in order to stay true to the core values of graffiti today, it will take way more effort and way more risk compared to the 80’s and 90’s.”
What has changed today is that, in order to stay true to the core values of graffiti today, it will take way more effort and way more risk compared to the 80’s and 90’s. Like with anything, real writers today are on a whole other level today compared to me; not the BS strictly legal crews but the real crews, the ones still putting in the effort: street bombing, painting in insane places. I don’t really give a shit how good you are, but I deeply respect how much street bombing you may have done. Those real crews today rule. Wow! Mega respect.
“(…) today people have it way easier in terms of the actual technical aspect of painting.”
On the flip side of that, aside from the current legal difficulties involved in stealing paint, etc, today people have it way easier in terms of the actual technical aspect of painting. Back in the days there were no “graffiti” stores that sold all different kinds of caps. For paint we had Krylon, Altona and, later on, if lucky, some Sparvar and Nubril Cire Express (fat caps), and shit Krylon skinny caps, and maybe a Sparvar cap or two. That was it and we had to paint using just those. I bet 99% of people today would be incapable of painting using the shit paint and caps we had back then. You needed waaaaaay more technique and practice to achieve good results. Today you have thousands of specialized caps and a myriad of high quality paint choices, making the technical side pretty much child’s play compared to back in the day. I remember the day Colt and I discovered the Nubril Cire Express fat caps. That changed it all!
Do you think the vision of superiority with which many New York old school writers look at European writers is justified?
No. That is not justified.
What place does graffiti have in your life nowadays?
Graffiti has and will always be an important part of my life. Do I still go out and paint? No not at all, but I draw a lot and tag everything that I get my hands on just like Skeme said in Style Wars: “I still doodle on everything.” Yeah, me too, but I am out of the game now. I was in it to win it and after a while, just like in sports, a hungrier, better-than-you-have-ever-been generation steps in takes the torch and brings it to the next level.
What do you look for in the graffiti scene today, and who do you look up to?
I don’t look for anything and don’t really follow the scene today, but what I do see is too many posers and street artists using the image of graffiti to promote their fake BS. I will say that back in the day I always thought Mode, Shoe, Delta had way better styles than I ever did. I would be fighting for hours trying to draw an A and Mode walks up with a ball point pen and in a few seconds draws an A way better that I could after hours of trying. Delta had mad 3D style, not BS 3D effects with shit letters like so many today, but unbelievable crazy letter style and simple deadly 3d effects. Shoe could manipulate simple styles in a way that drove me insane. I was like fuck why can’t I think of an S like that?
“Street art is piggy backing on graffiti and watering down the legitimate break from establishment that graffiti helped create in the first place.”
If hip hop and graffiti somehow represented a break with the establishment, 50 or 60 years later, what can this culture do to continue breaking the mold while remaining true to its principles?
The only way graffiti will keep breaking the mold is if it stays in the hands of true writers, not fake street artists. It may not please most people, but breaking the mold means staying true to the core values of graffiti, namely racking paint and street bombing. Street art is piggy backing on graffiti and watering down the legitimate break from establishment that graffiti helped create in the first place.
“So as long as you have paid your dues, you are real, and if you have not, you are a poser.”
Every day it seems to be more difficult to distinguish between people who actually paint, and people who pretend to paint something, largely because communication is not direct but through social networks. What is your opinion on the subject?
It is actually really simple: The only true writers are those who steal or have stolen their paint and who are doing or have done illegal walls. Don’t get me wrong, once you have paid your graffiti dues, this “genuineness,” so to speak, can never be taken away. For example take Jonone. He has bombed NYC more than anyone back in the day. He was King of NY, and when you buy a Jon painting today you have all that graffiti blood, sweat and tears behind everything he does. It is a genuine piece of graffiti art, not some fake BS with no foundation.
So as long as you have paid your dues, you are real, and if you have not, you are a poser. I have nothing against people buying paint and doing only legal stuff. To each his own, but don’t call it graffiti. Call it by its true name: Street Art.
What do you think about the Netflix series about NTM. Were you consulted about your character?
Firstly, I want to remind everyone this is a TV show, NOT a documentary! From a TV-show point of view, I thought it was well produced.
The producers contacted me and said that Didier and Bruno insisted I have a part in the show, and that they were doing this show with or without my help, but they would much rather have me as a consultant in order to produce a more realistic show. I helped them out and I think the results were good. And again, I must say it once more, it’s a TV show, NOT a documentary, so from that point of view, it was cool.
The casting was very well done. Didier looks exactly like Didier, and Bruno too. Those actors looked exactly like them back in the day. My character was also fairly on point and really looked like my nerdy self back then. As with any TV show, they will add dramatic BS that never happened, like the cops chasing me and Bruno, or Didier in front of the wall on the Quai de la Seine. We never painted there together, ever- but again it’s a TV show, not a documentary.
I thought the graffiti reproductions were so well done that when I got the set pics I thought someone had super high res pics from back in the day. It fooled even me at first. Unfortunately I told them to paint over the pieces once the scenes were shot, as I thought the repos would suck. Had I known how well done they would be, I would have let them. It would have given people the opportunity to see these pieces life size and 99% accurate.
What can you tell us about the book West Side Kingz?
West Side Kings is a book I have contributed information to. I think they are doing a great investigative job and since they research all the people featured in the book with the same attention to detail, it will be an amazing book for sure, and I am looking forward to getting a copy. I saw a couple of preview pics and I myself was blown away! Where the fuck did these guys get those pics and of such high quality? This book will be epic for sure.
Tell us a little bit about your black book reissue
This was my black book from ’84 to about ’89, and at the time, I did not really think anything of this black book or how significant it was or what I was doing. So, I gave it to my friend Jaid, and everyone forgot about it, until now.
Jaid is a record collector, and back in the late ’80s, he just put the black book in a plastic bag and slid it between a pile of records. A few months ago, Jaid called me and told me he had found the book and that it was a major collection of sketches, and I really needed to see it.
I tripped out when I saw it again after all this time. Not only is this the genesis of all my letter styles, but it also contains the original sketches of all the big CTK walls we did at the time with Mode 2, Shoe, Colt, and Angel—all of them! It is also full of crazy letter styles I had completely forgotten about. Many of these sketches are previously unseen by anyone.
I decided to reissue the book exactly as it is—no additional text, no additional info or pics, just the raw book exactly like the original. We found the same paper as the original; they still make it. The cover is the same black book cover, and it has fold-out sketches that will be individually cut and stuck together with tape by hand. It will look and feel exactly like the original in every detail.
I will be tagging and individually personalizing each one, making each copy an original of sorts. There will only be 500, and this book will not be reprinted. The book will go on sale around the end of October. I will announce it on my Instagram•
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