“WHEN YOU BECOME SUCCESSFUL YOU GET A LOT OF HATE” QUICK INTERVIEW WITH COPE2

Photos by Landry A.

It was perhaps the most-packed opening in Montana Gallery Barcelona’s 19-year history. Cope2‘s Iconicizm was the event that brought together almost the entire Barcelona graffiti scene on the narrow (more than ever) sidewalk of Comerç street. A unique opportunity to see his throw-ups up close and chat with the Bronx legend.
The Iconicizm exhibit by Cope2 shows at Montana Gallery Barcelona until January 19, 2024.

Can you tell us something good about graffiti nowadays, compared to when you started?

A good thing is that it hasn’t changed much, in the sense that some graffiti writers, like me and a few others, were able to take graffiti to another level, like in galleries, and doing big projects, and stuff like that, you know. Because I come from a hardcore scene: bombing, doing trains, walls, and then I transitioned to galleries. So, that’s a good thing about it now. You know, back then, I mean, people were doing trains and stuff like that, but you still had a lot of writers transitioning into the gallery scene like Futura, Crash, Daze, Dondi, and Seen, in the early 80’s already. So, that’s a good thing about graffiti: you can still change from doing graffiti to gallery and sell your artwork. It’s not for everyone because it takes a lot of effort, dedication. You have to push yourself, and push yourself further. Because not everyone is gonna help you. There’s a lot of competition out there. There’s a lot of people doing it, so it’s a competition at the end of the day.

“The bad thing about it (graffiti) is like sometimes, when you become successful, and you become famous, and you travel all over the world, you get a lot of jealousy and a lot of hate.”

And something bad?

The bad thing about it is like sometimes, when you become successful, and you become famous, and you travel all over the world, you get a lot of jealousy and a lot of hate. It’s bad. The things people may say about you, just to try to ruin your name and ruin your whole character and image. It’s insane the shit I had to deal with for many years, and fighting people, and beating them up because, you know, when the Internet came, it got outta hand. People were able to disrespect you and talk a lot of crap, and you can’t even do anything because you don’t even know who they are. But it’s terrible when it’s people you’ve known for years, and they turn on you and they hate on you. It’s a terrible thing because I never hated on writers; I always watched people before me like Jon One, how he moved to Paris and made it in the gallery world. I watched and I used it towards my experience. I’m not gonna hate on you; it doesn’t make sense. Why would you get jealous of an artist when you can do it too, you know? That’s the only bad thing about it today. It’s tough but it’s part of being successful, I learned, and that’s the way it is.

What does a writer have to do to stay real to graffiti while also being involved in the gallery world?

It depends on the writer himself, you know. Like me, I do galleries, I still do trains, I still do throw ups illegally on the streets because it’s what I do. I love graffiti. I’m not gonna do it like some writers that go from trains, walls and streets and end up in the galleries and just quit, you know? It’s not even about keeping it real, you know, because you can keep it real and people are still gonna hate and be jealous. You have to do it for yourself at the end of the day. It’s your passion. It’s my passion. I love it. I can do whatever type of graffiti, legal or illegal, it doesn’t matter to me. I’ll do everything. So, it’s different for everyone, everyone is different. It all depends on you and how you wanna live your life as an artist. Hardcore, gallery, urban, contemporary, it’s all up to you.

“A graffiti artist is more like someone who does gallery and legal stuff and a graffiti writer is the one who really does the illegal stuff. So, pretty much, I do both.”

How do you deal with your public artistic image when it comes to legal consequences related to graffiti?

Well, I’ve been arrested many times. I’ve paid a lot of lawyer’s fees but in New York, now, you do throw ups in the streets. They’re not gonna stress too much on that. Of course, if they catch you, they’re probably gonna arrest you, but until you go on the trains… You know, I can’t go paint subway cars in NY just like that anymore, because they know who I am. So, I have to keep things a little cool still. You know, I do a lot of legal stuff, as in galleries and big projects, and if I started to do a lot of illegal stuff, like hardcore trains, it would definitely jeopardize my career as a “graffiti artist”. Because to me, you know, I’m a “graffiti writer” and a “graffiti artist”. A graffiti artist is more like someone who does gallery and legal stuff and a graffiti writer is the one who really does the illegal stuff. So, pretty much, I do both.

Nowadays, there are a lot of “comebacks” from NY’s first- and second-generation writers. Most had disappeared for a long time and now claim their importance. It sometimes feels like they want their piece of the cake. What do you think about that?

I mean it’s cool, you know, at the end of the day you gotta make a living if you’re an old school writer. I think they saw how big graffiti and street art got all around the world. And they’ve seen so many old-school writers like me having an actual career. Personally, I’ve never stopped. I always kept it consistent, even in the 90s when NY was dying out, when nobody was really doing much, I was doing walls everywhere, doing big walls and writers from Europe where coming and I was keeping NY alive at that time. A lot of writers just disappeared. Still, there are some old school writers that are coming back now who didn’t really do much. They probably just did 2 or 3 subway cars and they come back, and they are just “legends”; that’s the only thing that gets me upset. A lot of them try to act like they have done a lot but in the end they haven’t done very much. And it’s so annoying, you know, and they act like you owe them something. Trust me, I’ve spoken to a few of them, and their heads are big and they’re like: “Oh, if it wasn’t for me, graffiti wouldn’t be around the world!”. And I look at them, like, what do you mean!? I mean, just be cool, be humble and work together with people. But some people -some of these old guys- have big egos. Man, let me tell you. But I mean, if you can make a career out of it, go for it. I’m always up for people to be successful and to win, but be cool about it; don’t think that the world owes you anything. Nobody owes you nothing and nobody will give you anything because they don’t care. But if you’re cool, hey, you might get a show, you get flown somewhere and people will hook you up. Show respect, especially to the new generation. You’re not better than anyone else. Alright, you’re old-school, you did this, and hey, thank you, but, you know, don’t try to use it and be disrespectful of the new generation.