SKEME TMT, FROM STYLE WARS TO TODAY: “MY COMEBACK IS MONUMENTAL”

As part of our series of interviews of pioneers and old school writers who have made breakthroughs in the history of graffiti, it is our pleasure to interview Skeme, TMT.
The style and appearances of this writer, both in Style Wars and Subway Art, already belong to the imagination of many writers around the world.
The scene where he talks to his mother in the kitchens connected all kind of graffiti writers regardless of times or nationalities. Even if you haven’t seen the movie.
His statements, along with the famous “this is it, this is it,” live rent-free in our minds. And yet, perhaps the most important thing is how active it remains today.
Discover a little more about him with us.

You are the most empathetic Style Wars testimonial. How old were you at the time? How have you handled being such an icon over the course of your life?
I prefer “relatable” to empathetic…It’s phonetically a little too close to “sympathetic” and tends to invoke an image of one seeking understanding. “Graffiti” was born in a time and place where expecting anything to be given to you was a sign of weakness. Being relatable makes me the beneficiary of a common experience. Being relatable is one of the first things most [graff] writers tell me when they meet me for the first time. “Man, watching you with your mom reminded me of so many conversations I had with mine…” This lead to deeper discussions on the film and the culture it so poignantly captured. During the majority of filming I was 16 and 17 years old, a minor, which necessitated my mother’s signature and release to appear in the documentary.
We talked about it a for a couple of years, mostly with me working hard to convince her. She was understandably  reluctant and had a strong disdain for anything criminally or graffiti related. She told me she felt Henry [Chalfant] was an enabler who contributed to our delinquency. But in the end, I know she knew, and I believe it comes across in the film, that Henry was merely an observer, a documentarian …one with enough luck, diplomacy, and forethought to capture us “in the wild”…unscripted, uninfluenced, and most importantly,  undeterred.

“King is also the oldest and most coveted title; it embodies the spirit of what I consider the four categories of goals: Having the most; doing the best; being the first; and pushing the boundaries of risk of capture or death.”

As far as being an “icon” goes, I tend to steer clear of titles not organic to “graffiti’s” lexicon. Terms like “style master” and “king”, with king being the most widely accepted and internally bestowed title. King is also the oldest and most coveted title; it embodies the spirit of what I consider the four categories of goals: Having the most; doing the best; being the first; and pushing the boundaries of risk of capture or death. Words like “icon” and “legend” are more likely to be used by laypersons, novices, or “fans”. A legend, in my mind, is an outrageously extraordinary person or feat that sounds good but by most accounts didn’t take place. One such legend surrounds a “throw up” king who wrote…”IN“, a member of The Odd Partners crew (TOP,).
“Legend” has it that he was in the habit of painting his two letter “stamp” throwup with two hands, one can in each hand, the left hand executing the “I” and the right simultaneously executing the “N”. Although it seems feasible, writers who knew him say it never happened. Trust me, real writers have enough real tales to tell without the need for embellishments,… the scene was just that wild and crazy.
If I had to make a case, no pun intended, for the use of the word legendary, I’d site the phenomenal exploits of Kase2, who at a young age suffered a horrific accident resulting in the amputation of his right arm and left leg. This young man at the time, was not only able to maintain and command his sanity, but mastered his physical self as well,..executing every risk required of a graffiti writer, including learning to paint and draw with what was not his dominant hand. He’s the only true legend I know of.

Personally, I can’t relate to being an icon or a legend for that matter. Icons are also mostly associated with people that are either dead or no longer practicing…Me, I’m alive and well and still honing my craft, shall we say, with and “without permission”. That doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge the influence, impact, and the resulting notoriety that comes with being “known”. Prior to the Style Wars debut, we were undoubtedly “hood famous”, but no one involved in the film can deny that the exposure and adoration we received was due in a major way to the film as well as books like Subway Art and Spraycan Art.
It’s a textbook symbiotic relationship though. Without us, no film, and without the film, no lasting global “fame”…a fame and documentation which often serves as the gateway to legitimacy in the “gallery art world”. Although for me, appearing in the film essentially ended my NYC train writing career, I have no regrets and am glad I made the decision to participate.

You’ve been asked numerous times about the first time you painted a train, and we’ve read how you got hooked on the sensation. That was in 1980 and in 1982 you enlisted in the army, is that correct? How did you deal with the desire to paint and not being able to? Were you able to paint anything during those almost 30 years? 
I actually started in late 1978 early 1979. I am aware that I did in fact recount my start as 1980, but I’ll have to chalk that up to human error. So yeah, I officially started around Fall 78/Winter 79.
Officially in my book it is calculated as the first time I “hit” an in-service NYC MTA subway car. Not in the staircase of your building, not on your desk in school, not on the ice machine in front of the corner bodega, not on a mailbox…but ON or IN a train, either in a yard or layup. I enlisted in the US Army at age 17 in September 1982.
I wore my uniform with pride, and made up my mind I’d be the best soldier possible, like I endeavored to do with anything else. Almost 30 years later, the rest is history. I was fortunate enough to serve with some of my country’s best sons and daughters; survived a deployment to Iraq, and achieved the military rank of Command Sergeant Major; again, I have no regrets. While on active duty I came back and painted twice I think, once in the Graffiti Hall of Fame (GHOF), early 90s, next to Part, and maybe one more time, the particulars of which escape me. I painted a simple mural in Kuwait before we flew into Iraq in 07, one said “From The Bronx To Baghdad” and the other was a 4th Infantry Division Unit Crest, my unit at the time, with a scroll listing the names of all my soldiers…invariably, all didn’t make it back, so the mural had a special meaning.
Rest in Peace on both sides to those that gave all they had. No matter the country or regime, it is the young that go off and die for the ideals and quarrels of the old.

Were you aware of the changes that were taking place in the writing culture during that time?
If by changes you mean new paints and tools…no, I had no idea. My final return found me at Tuff City tattoo parlor in the Bronx. When I first walked into the court yard and saw a to-scale replica of NYC train car, I thought I died and went to graff heaven. Tuff City would become my adult daycare center for the next 4 or 5 years until it ran its course.
The second shock was stepping inside and getting an eyeful of the Montana paint rack.It looked like the Baskin Robbins of paint…but on steroids. Until then all I knew was Rustoleum, Krylon, Red Devil, Epoxy, and Wet Look. Now don’t get me wrong, those brands had some nice colors, but nothing and I mean nothing like the pallet present by the Montana MTN line!! Whooooaahh, and the caps!!?? In my day we had one stock (standard) cap and two specialty caps, Niagra (spray starch) and Jiffoam (oven cleaner). A few experimented with other caps, like the WD40 stem…but they didn’t stick…so three it was…until I was introduced to the NY fats, Lego, calligraphy, skinny, banana, etc…learning them was like my man BOOTS119 would say: “Fuggedabout it”!!

The other great thing about the Montana and Montana-esque paint recipes are the pressure options which also took some getting used to…now you could slow down…be a little more deliberate with your lines…and truth be told the lower pressure paints allowed a broader pool to achieve “can control” than ever before. I’m telling you, it took a whole lotta’ skill to outline with those high pressure rusto and krylons with stock caps.
Another of my favorite new innovations for us non permission guys and gals, is the telescoping ladder. Man I could’a used that in 1980. I guess other changes include the international and freight scenes, both of which I embrace and support fully. I could write a book on my European excursions alone; and for me freights are much welcomed “therapy”.
The good thing is most other things have gone unchanged. Snitches still get stitches, even though street bombing earned its place. Trains are still King. Crews are still organized pretty much the same….with some innovative mission statements like the 1UP Crew’s collective “getting up” success. Daredevil-ism is at an all time high. I can only look in awe at some of the heights these guys scaled. Albeit sometime foolhardy, following generations definitely surpassed our bravado…and lastly, respect is still and always the order of the day.

Speaking of respect, I had the pleasure of rocking with one of your countrymen by the way. He writes Orus; a super talented, driven writer. He would have fit right in 40 years ago. There’s some welcomed changes too though The playful and whimsical styles by writers like Ghost (RIS), Swet, and Sabe; the evolution and weaponization of throwups by guys like Ola and Suckybat, and all the all out onslaught of the JAs (XTC) of the movement. I even got love for the wheat paste assault by Cost and Revs. Now some graffiti purists may not agree, or expect me to say it -and although it’s kind’a outside our parameters- no one can deny the innovations in murals and realism by guys and gals like Andre Trenier, Will Power, Heiro Vega, Menace and Resa to name a few. I find the realism to be complimentary and not a pest. So yeah, nothing stays the same, but I am satisfied and delighted by what I see and hear for the most part. Even loving the NYC clean train resurgence. Whose doing it you might ask? Well, you know how the saying goes, “Those who know, don’t say, and those who say, don’t know”!!
Speaking of clean trains, a quick shout out to Alan “Ket” for both his defiance in the face of stiffer penalties during NYC’s first clean train era and his co-founded Museum of Graffiti. And even graffiti heavy galleries like Dirty Pilot. All these things work together…the tools, the interest, the buyers, the creators, the Henrys, the Marthas…together they make what we only dreamed of as kids possible.

What kind of contact did you have with the writers who painted with you? Who do you keep in touch with today?
I am luckily and gratefully back with my original crew, TMT Crew, The Magnificent Team, the last fully intact, with original Pres and VP, under the leadership of Kade198 and Tean5, two of my heroes and best friends. I was also fortunate to reconnect with my mentor and Big Brother Phase2 before his untimely passing. My old partner DEZ and I were lucky enough to speak like men before he passed away. Rest in Peace to those two, to use your term, iconic figures.

You have 8 children. How do your children see graffiti? Are any of them interested in the culture, in carrying on your legacy, or do they see it as an old-fashioned culture?
All my kids know I did it. I downplay it a lot but I think they’re proud of it. A few of them do “doodle on the paper”, but graff is something they’d have to get to on their own. 1.) It’s dangerous and 2.) it’s illegal, and 3.) it doesn’t pay well …lol, so what kind of father would I be if steered them towards a life like that!!??

“My comeback is monumental if I may say so. I can’t think of any writer who came back after 30 years, entering the gallery world, hitting walls, trucks, trains, freights, state to state and internationally, and so on, and even surpassing the skill level I attained 40 years ago.”

As one of the most recognized and iconic Style Wars writers, how did you experience the comeback? What does being a writer mean to you now that you’re at this stage of your life?
My comeback is monumental if I may say so. I can’t think of any writer who came back after 30 years, entering the gallery world, hitting walls, trucks, trains, freights, state to state and internationally, and so on, and even surpassing the skill level I attained 40 years ago. If you know of another, send me his or her name so we can team up or battle for the title. Its up to them!!
But in all seriousness, as monumental as my comeback is, its due in no small part to the reception and hospitality I’ve received. Invites and opportunities to paint or parlay with Swet, CMP, Sabe, Seyar aka Mr Whole Car, Mser, Orus, Come, Galleria Varsi in Rome, and just as if not more importantly, old friends KADE198, TEAN5, T-KID170, BOT707, KASE2, PORE1, NIC707, LAVA 1/2, PHASE2,  CHARMIN65, and TRACY168 to name but a few, all contributed to my reentry into the culture. So thanks to those guys and gal. Much love and respect.

Where does the history of graffiti fit into the current scheme of the scene and what differences do you see between the USA and Europe, or the rest of the world? 
The thing about history is that doesn’t only mean from 72 to 82. History is constantly being written and updated. It is the duty of the new generation to keep alive the names of the forefathers, likewise, it is the duty of the forefathers to recognize and salute the contributions and achievements of those that come after them. Together we stay alive. Divided we are easily forgotten. Just as in anything, one day the new guys will be counted amongst the OGs, and the next guys will treat you as they’ve seen you treat the ones before you.

“True graffiti is ILLEGAL. If you are painting on any surface by way of commission or with permission or consent…that is GRAFFITI ART.”

Graffiti has been evolving, along with society, and there seems to be a gap between those who want to maintain and follow the thread of tradition and those who have no interest in history and just want to paint. How do you see this?
Hmmm, interesting question. But for me the answer is very simple. True graffiti is ILLEGAL. If you are painting on any surface by way of commission or with permission or consent…that is GRAFFITI ART. And, to me, if you are painting graffiti…risking life, limb, scrutiny, or your freedom…then you earn the right to exercise some degree of innovation in terms of your spin, or things.

The introductions of new but not altering axioms is a good thing, as long as the landmarks and foundation are maintained. Bull Riding qualification times have changed. The equipment is updated, new safety measures are put in place…but in the end, you still have to get on a Bull who doesn’t want you on his back. Guys have gotten smarter, as well they should. Employing tactics like squads of lookouts, becoming familiar with train and security schedules, and the use of surveillance techniques such as drones -things we didn’t have in 1979 but sure could have used. Only a fool would denounce these precautions. Only a fool would take exception. One thing you can’t gloss over, is the stakes are higher for today’s writers. For one, the average age has increased from 14 to 30, well over the legal age to be charged as an adult. Additionally, many governments, out of embarrassment, as far as I’m concerned, have elected to tie “graffiti writing” to homeland security and if you can believe it, “terrorism”. It’s sad the lengths they go through to basically ruin your life in some places, while embezzlers, rapists and other violent criminals go free. Graffiti is and always will be the scapegoat for what’s wrong with society due to its high visibility and poke in the eye of authority.
As far as US/European ties, differences and similarities, I’ll say this, I love what I see and hear, as well as what I’ve experienced first hand…wink, wink!! Man, you talk to some of these European cats, they know more than you do about American graffiti lore! Lol, they def take the history and craft seriously and that’s all you can ask for. The vast majority remember and celebrate the roots and America’s pioneering effort, saluting what we gave to the world, treating it with reverence and respect. Graffiti is the voice of the common man in any dialect.

Is the testimony given in Style Wars 100% accurate to reality? Which parts have been exaggerated?
Let’s talk about all the writers who say they painted 5,000 trains in not much more than 10 years. Do you think this discourse is true?
After first acknowledging “the old slippa-roo” from earlier claims of 5,000 pieces to 5,000 trains, let me qualify my statements with, “I wasn’t there” and state up front, that my answer is like a cake made with a sprinkle of conjecture, speculation, common sense, and a heaping spoon of personal experience baked in an oven at 425° of cynicism. Now that I’ve established that, the key to answering this question is in the verbiage. I’ve heard this assertion from a handful of writers, and out of those, the ones that might be able to stake this claim are three: BLADE, COMET, and IN (70s) and more recently MSER from Romania.

The thing is, the words “train, piece, and throw-up”, are often used both interchangeably and incorrectly. You see, at one time, what now qualifies as a throw-up was generally accepted as a piece (short for masterpiece). In fact almost anything that went above and beyond a “tag” or “single hit” might have been referred to as a “piece”.  You’d have to identify at what point in the continuum of graffiti style & innovation did what was accepted as a piece more closely resemble what today we call a “throw -up”. Throw-ups are devoid of the necessary components (of a piece) …i.e. a shadow or 3D, designs, and cloud or background, and lettering with varying degrees sophistication. Even “bubble letters”, pioneered by Phase2, can be considered a piece if in possession of the aforementioned components.. To that end, I am in serious doubt that either Blade or Comet would consider their signature bubble (pieces) to be throw ups, but that doesn’t mean they’d pass the smell test by later and todays standards. This is why it’s theoretically more feasible to attain a number like 5,000 by querying the number of trains vs number of pieces, as “trains” would seem to encompass almost any mark you’d make on the outside surface. I’ll end by saying this: I wasn’t there in the early to mid 70s when Blade and Comet laid it down, but I know they both put in mad work, individually and as a team. so 5,000 of what my generation considers a throw-up, yeah I can see that, but 5,000 masterpieces, you’d have to show me every single photo.

“99.9% of what you see in Style Wars is true or a true representation. In my mind Style Wars was the precursor to “reality TV”.”

99.9% of what you see in Style Wars is true or a true representation. In my mind Style Wars was the precursor to “reality TV”. The candid conversations, behind the scenes access, generational crossover, and an underground, illegal, or bad boy activity made, and still make for good television. Whether by accident or design it contained all the elements of a good saga: the heroes or protagonists, the villain, “the man” or “the system”, and the damsel in distress, with the damsel in this case being the MTA. I think the producers did a great job of presenting graffiti’s racial and socio-economic undertones. Any inaccuracies are far outweighed. If anything came to mind it would be the “iconic” scene at the “Writer’s Bench” at 149th Street and The Grand Concourse in the Bronx. The truth is many of the people filmed in that sequence did not frequent The Bench as it was often associated with violence. On any given day you could leave with a fat lip, black eye, or without one of the possessions you came with. I don’t have to say any names. Just watch and listen closely you can easily tell who was not native to that experience. There’s also a lot of writers who were not featured in the film, some deserving, some not, but in truth, to capture everyone who had something of importance to say or who was prolific would take at least five more sequels.

I’d like to thank Musa71 for putting me in contact with you guys, and of course thank you MTN for giving an old gripe a place to, as we say, philosophize!! It’s great to be able to reflect on the artform, the culture…but we must also bear in mind, when we made these paintings years ago, we were just kids; rebellious, immortal, and in many ways, aloof. Our future was Friday night, not 40 years from yesteryear. Thank you for having me. Rest in Peace – Phase2, Tracy168, Kase2, Stay High149, Dr Soul, Nic707, Lava 1/2, Dondi, Dez, Stan153, Jr Bic, Bear167, Cliff159, Dean, Tybu2, ENOO5, Billy168, P-Nut2, Rock, Orko, Zexor, Smily149, AD Rock, and a host of others.

Skeme
TMT – TNT- TDS –  inds – 3YB – T.E.D. inc – TC – Top Mob